In the third and final episode of Engaging Reluctant Learners our three guest educators take a close look at engagement. They explore what engagement really looks like in the classroom and methods you can use to ignite curiosity and foster student independence. If you haven't listened yet, make sure to check out the first two episodes of this series.
Transcript
Jennifer Lempp:
Amy Berry's model of engagement really moves from disrupting to driving. And when I think about where I used to feel, we just wanted kids to participate. At the time, we just were hoping that they would follow directions and get their work done. They would interact. But that's actually kind of in the middle of engagement. And sometimes we can be really happy with that if the alternative was disrupting others and being uncompliant or having some challenging behaviors present.
But what we really want is to move into this optimum engagement where students are asking questions and being curious, where they're setting their own learning goals, where they're seeking feedback and they're truly collaborating, not just answering questions or talking only from the student to the teacher. We want that student to student conversation. We really want the interest level to be up enough that they are collaborating and setting goals.
Maria Nichols:
I always love the way Rupert Wegerif talks about the notion of dialogic space. He uses it as a metaphor for a kind of a shared dynamic space of meaning-making that opens up between people. If you've ever been so involved in a conversation that you don't notice when people are calling your name, that you don't realize how long you've been on the phone or online and whatever way you're communicating, that's what I'd love to see in the classroom.
When kids have books spread out, they have a science inquiry spread out, they have their math tools out, and they're so deep in the conversation that they don't notice the teacher trying to get their attention, calling them back. And it's not something that happens immediately. It takes time to get kids to that level of deep, constructive journey with each other.
I think part of it is redefining independence, recognizing that independence doesn't mean silent and alone. It's about crafting your learning journey with others and drawing from them as you go. And the literacy arena I think is very much about helping children understand that text hold layers of meanings, and that with each purposeful revisit of a text, our talk should take us deeper and deeper.
Modeling that for children and then creating the space for them to have the time, have time with their science inquiries, have the time with independent reading, have the time with those rich mathematical problems. Time is the universal challenge for teachers everywhere. We can't create more time, but we can change what we do with our time and rethink not only the compelling ideas and challenges as Jennifer was talking about, but teaching them to lean into them.
Kelly Boswell:
I was thinking about how this shows up in the writing classroom. Many teachers that I work with notice there are students in their classroom who are slumping in their chairs during writing or "I can't think of anything to write about," or "How long does this have to be?" And what I found is one practical strategy to increase engagement in the writing classroom is autonomy and choice. Do kids have choice of topic?
Do they have choice of where they're going to sit? Do they have choice of what kind of writing paper they're going to use or what kind of writing utensil they're going to use? Motivation and energy kind of hinge on this idea of choice. And so if we want engagement, giving writers some autonomy and some choice does increase engagement. And I've seen that in the reading classroom as well.
We know what we're teaching, we know what the standards are asking us to teach, but the standards aren't saying it has to be with this book. So students can have choice and voice in the books that are interesting to them. And within those books, they can learn about that standard and practice trying out that standard in their own literacy lives as readers, but doing it with a book that they can read and that they want to read. And those practical steps in the literacy classroom, that giving of autonomy and choice I've seen reap huge benefits when it comes to engagement.
Maria:
I'm just thinking an extension of that is not only autonomy with book choice, whether it's students choosing their own books or teacher having the option to select books that actually compel their students. It's recognizing that children will often drive the conversations in directions that were different than what we thought or the way that we had hoped. They bring their own lived experience to the constructive process. And recognizing that we can let go of our preconceived notion of what a text is about and let children drive the meaning-making, which is kind of an extension of choice.
Jennifer:
That autonomy is so important in mathematics too. How choose to solve a problem, what strategy. Am I going to solve this problem by drawing a picture? Am I going to act it out using manipulatives? What strategy am I going to use? You can also use that autonomy when you're thinking about how to explore a concept. What kinds of activities do we have for students?
If it's the same assigned worksheet for everyone, we have some students who are going to either race through it just to get it done, others who may be doing some avoidance behaviors. And so instead, with an increase in autonomy, that might look like some different games or stations for students to explore these ideas where maybe it's, I have choice on how long I even explore it, how long I play this game with my partner. So there are a lot of different ways that autonomy plays in with mathematics too.
Kelly:
I think one of the central questions that we thought about when we were thinking about practical strategies that teachers can use to increase engagement in their classroom is this idea of whatever the instructional area you're working on, are we creating meaningful and purposeful experiences for our learners? Are we giving them math that's worthy of their time and attention? Are we giving them things and ideas and concepts to talk about that are worthy of their time and attention?
And are we giving them writing experiences and reading experiences that are worthy of children's times and experience? One of the things, as I'm planning a writing lesson, for instance, the four questions I ask myself is, is this meaningful work? Is this purposeful work? Is this something that real writers do? And would I be engaged in this work?
And if the answer to these four questions are no, then I typically don't go forward with that lesson. Because if I myself would not be engaged, if this is something that real writers don't do, if it's not meaningful or purposeful, I think children can feel that and they can feel when an experience is meaningful and purposeful or when it's just, "This is the assignment that I need to get done." Maria, I can see you thinking.
Maria:
I'm just thinking as you're talking, isn't that part of keeping curiosity alive? That when we're wrestling with something that is meaningful, relevant, compelling. I'm curious to find out where I'm going to go with it. I'm curious to find out where the others I'm engaged with are going to go with it. I'm curious to find out what we can figure out together. And when I think about the fabulous communities that I'm fortunate enough to work in, those communities that keep the work compelling, real and keep curiosity alive are the places I can't wait to get to. And we want kids to feel that way about the classroom.
Edie:
Thanks for tuning in today. You can learn more, listen to the other episodes in this series and read a full transcript at Blog.Heinemann.com.
About the Author
Kelly Boswell has many years of experience as a classroom teacher, staff developer, literacy coach, and district literacy specialist.
Her latest book, Every Kid A Writer, will be available in October 2020. She is the coauthor of Crafting Nonfiction and Reading Solutions and the author of Write This Way and Write This Way From the Start. She is also the author of several nonfiction children’s books.
Kelly works with schools and districts around the country to support educational leaders, coaches and teachers. Her emphasis is on developing literacy practices that help students become joyful and passionate readers and writers.
Dr. Jennifer Lempp is the author of Math Workshop: Five Steps to Implementing Guided Math, Learning Stations, Reflection, and More. This book is a practical resource meant to support teachers with strategies and structures to help create a learning environment where students are engaged in purposeful mathematics experiences.
Jennifer consults with schools and districts around the country, providing professional development on mathematics content and instructional practices. Additionally, she supports school leaders on the development of mathematics professional learning and school improvement plans.
Jennifer’s goal is to ensure all students have positive mathematics experiences and that teachers have the tools to support all students in the area of mathematics. You can follow Jennifer Lempp on Twitter @Lempp5 or Instagram @jennifer_lempp and learn more about her and her work on her website: mathworkshop.net.
Maria Nichols is a literacy consultant and Director of School Innovation for the San Diego Unified School District. A former elementary classroom teacher, Nichols received the Distinguished Elementary Educator Award from the San Diego chapter of Phi Delta Kappa, 2002.
Maria is the author of Comprehension Through Conversation and her latest book, Building Bigger Ideas: A Process for Teaching Purposeful Talk.
