On the Podcast: What Makes Students Want to Write?

Joseph Rodríguez:

I enjoyed visiting with you, meeting your students and your students who are poets. How did you get your students to become poets and scribes?

Kristen Biancuzzo:

Well, Joseph, we worked really hard at it. Some students have a natural ability to write poetry and they love to, and so they influenced their classmates. But we also used a lot of reference material to start with, to steal lines from, including some of your poems.

Joseph:

Thank you. Well, that's inspiring. I remember meeting your students and something that really drew me in, is that they want to write. They really have an interest in writing. While writing this book, I was really drawn to the question of what makes students want to write? And I realize that you write with your students.

Kristen:

I find that you have to. If you want your students to produce something, you have to model for them. So I always do projects alongside of them, so that they also know what I expect from them, but also so that they understand that it's okay to take risks, to talk about things that are difficult to talk about, whether it's death or stress or whatever, that you can share that with them and then they will also be willing to share back.

Joseph:

A big question that some students ask me is why write? Who's going to read this anyway? And I often say, "I will. I'll read it." And I do love to read their work. But I also realize though, that there's a stage that your students have. You connect them with community poets in the Massachusetts area where their school is located. Tell me a little bit about those connections that you make to bring that scribe onto a stage and to feel that, "Well, there are listeners. There is an audience greater than my classroom."

Kristen:

Joseph, can I just go back to the first thing you said there?

Joseph:

Sure.

Kristen:

Because I think that students also need to learn how to write when they're their own audience. In the book, you talk about students valuing the art and beauty of writing on their own and not just writing for other people, but learning to be able to express themselves, whether it's a journal or whatever. But I really find that the real life experiences, having the opportunity to meet a poet such as yourself in person, has a dramatic effect on the student's ability to want to write. They want to reach out to you. They want you to suddenly see them as who they are and not just some stranger off in the room. So when they write and they know somebody like you is reading it, or me and that I'm writing comments back to them, suddenly it makes them feel that they're worthy and that their voices are worth hearing.

Joseph:

They're joining the conversation. And I see that you really motivate them and you offer them gentle nudges and pushes. I'm thinking of my student, Catherine, who told another classmate, "Let me just write already." This student kept interrupting her and she wanted a space to write. And this convinced him, Ezekiel to also write himself for themselves. I think that's important, yes, that's a good reminder that you've given us. What are some things that you do to teach a love of writing, really to complement this book, which I observed in your class? But I'd like for you to talk about that.

Kristen:

A couple of pieces. I particularly like the section on writing letters. In the beginning of the school year, I have students write letters to me, I'm their audience, so they know that I'm the only one reading the letter. And in the letter, I ask the students to talk about themselves, to tell me what they love about reading and writing, what they fear about being in the class, their concerns as juniors in high school, because they're usually afraid of growing up. And it's amazing, it's such a beautiful experience to read those letters.

And I write them a letter back as well. I write a letter to my students and let them know what my concerns are for this year, who I am and things I've gone through. And so I think that, because again, I took that risk to them, that they share these very beautiful, very personal pieces that allow me to understand who they're as, not only students, but as human beings sitting in front of me. Because in the end, it's building those relationships with students that matters more than any curriculum that I'm going to teach. If I don't know who they are as individuals, those students aren't going to give a darn about whatever book we're reading or whatever assignment we're writing. If they feel that they are being listened to and that their ideas matter and who they are matters, then they have buy-in for the next steps and the next ways I will push them to the next level.

Joseph:

I certainly saw the care that you have for them and a deep regard for their voices, the things that they type, what they write in cursive, what they write in print. The poet John Donne says, "Our letters are ourselves." And while writing this book, I really thought about the letter form and the poets that I really liked growing up in Houston, Texas. And I remember writing to a few writers to tell them, "I like your novel."

Kristen:

Ah, yes.

Joseph:

And what amazed me is that they wrote back.

Kristen:

Yes.

Joseph:

I loved their poems. And some of those poets were Gwendolyn Brooks, Sandra Cisneros, Alice Walker, Gary Soto. And I was in high school, but they encouraged me to keep reading and keep writing. And I think you do something similar too with your own students.

Kristen:

Yes. And part of it was first writing letters to you, Joseph. Last year, my students were working on a poetry project for the year. And in order to make it feel real, we wanted to invite published poets to come and do workshops with the students. And it's nice when I reach out to people, but it also matters when the students have some buy-in as well. And so when they did a poet research project and as part of that project, they all had to write letters to their poets, because all of them were still alive. And so they wrote letters, some of them heard back, some of them did not. But it was the experience of saying, "Hey, I learned something from reading your poetry and I'd love to talk to you." And then when that person writes back, it's amazing.

You had in the book a poet who had talked about the value of reaching out to someone. In that particular case, it was to a teacher that he had had, and how valuable that letter was that the teacher shared with him, that he felt acknowledged as a student, that he was going through such difficult times, but that his teacher had really listened to him, had admired what he had done in the classroom. And he said to the teacher, "You have no idea the impact that that letter had on me."

Joseph:

One of my students, Miles, he wanted to know if a letter really is forever. And that launched a lesson that I created, which was about bringing archived letters to life in the classroom like, what were people thinking at a certain time? What was happening in the world, in the life of this writer when they responded to a student, when they responded to a reader? I look back at some of the letters that I've written over the years, and I remember that moment in my life where I was trying to come of age, trying to grow up, and I wanted the authors to tell me, how did they imagine this character? How did they imagine this voice in a poem? And am I reading this correctly?

And often they'd say, "Just keep reading, rereading. Find other authors." And they'd even recommend authors to read or let me know about a local reading that would interest me. I remember Gary Soto telling me about a young writer's project that he created. And he sent me a journal notebook from that project so that I could gather my ideas. That was really significant to receive at aged 15.

Kristen:

I would imagine that would be incredible. I think back a few years ago, I was doing... Every year my students do a self-directed inquiry project, where they follow a line of research that they are interested in. And that particular year I was doing the project alongside them. And I was doing it on a book I had read. I was just really impressed by the author. I can't even remember the name of the book now. But I wrote to the author and when I got a letter back from the author, I shared it with my students and we were intensely excited that this famous person would write back.

And this year, my students are reading a book called Highway of Tears about missing and murdered indigenous women in British Columbia. And as part of that, we want to do a community service project, and we have been writing letters to groups all across the country and Canada and South America. And one student chose to write to the author and then she heard back. And just to get that encouragement from an authentic author who's writing a book that we're reading in class, is unbelievable.

Joseph:

Our students gain so much inspiration when they write a letter, that genre letter writing. And that they have an audience, they receive a response or have some confirmation that, "I'm doing something with my thinking." And oftentimes, I suspect that a lot might get archived or put away, but I like students to think about the adolescence of a writer. What was that author experiencing? And what connection? What's relevant today? So that it's not something that's shelved, but that literature is alive. Letters come to life, and they have a place in our own lives and in society, even though we may think that it was so long ago or just last week, but it's still significant.

Kristen:

Joseph, I also want to point out something else I liked about your book.

Joseph:

Sure.

Kristen:

One of the pieces I really liked, because I loved the letters, but I also loved the little block assignments that you could do. Because it reinforced different skills and different levels of engagement for students and for anyone who's reading the book, including myself. It was really nice to go down memory lane. One of the pieces was think about a teacher or a coach who had been inspirational to you in your past. That was a wonderful activity to do. And I think that sometimes we forget about those people who paved the path before us. So I really loved that in every section of the book, you have these little writing assignments. And then you have samples from your students, which just helps to reinforce what the message is.

Joseph:

I was very fortunate to work with a great editor, Louise [inaudible 00:13:44], who really welcomed all ideas that my students experience, what they wrote, also exercises that would work for teachers alongside their students. That was really significant to know that a book could be designed in a way that a teacher can come in on a page, a chapter and easily exit, depending on a specific unit, topic that they're covering. Well, one big interest that I had was including student work, and their comments, their doubts, their concerns, their frustrations, and also their triumphs with an assignment, with a reading. I often find books for teachers that need more teacher voice and student voice in action. And you're reminding me that this appears in the book.

Kristen:

Well, a lot of books for teachers tend to have a lot of words on the page. I think they believe that we're English teachers, so we like a lot of words. But sometimes it's really busy. I really like the layout of the book, because it's easy to find where you are going. I love the list at the end of all the potential references of other places that you can go for works. I love the inclusion of all the poetry, because you know that I have a special place in my heart for poetry. So I just really enjoy those connections. They're real-world connections with the student work, but they're also real-world connections with the other writers that are utilized throughout. And the author pages at the end when you feature a particular scribe, I love their stories as well. Because somewhere in each of the chapters, there's a different author who's going to connect to one of my students, who come from a variety of backgrounds, a variety of interests, and those connections are also really important.

Joseph:

The connections you described just remind me of an activity that my students completed a few days ago. And in this season of gratitude, I wanted them to choose... I offered them certain designs of thank you letters. And I told them their assignment was to write two letters, one to an adult at our early college high school, and another one to a family member or friend. And I received several letters addressed to me, thanking me. And as I read them, I realized that something very significant for them was the pacing of the class, that they had moments to breathe, to write, to perform, to question those scribal elements of literacy. And they shared that there was breathing time to actually explore a graphic novel, to respond in different ways. And although they didn't use these words, but I realized that they took a breather from cramming that they experience in some language arts classrooms. The pacing has to change.

Kristen:

I know, I feel sometimes that we're pushed all the time to try to fit as much as we possibly can into our sections that we're given for class. But we all, the teachers included, are bringing our baggage with us into the day. And we try to set it at the door, but sometimes you need that space, that room to process what's going on.

Joseph:

After meeting your students, I realize that we share a lot as teachers.

Kristen:

We do.

Joseph:

And also our students, most of my students are from working class backgrounds. I grew up in a working class home in the 1900s in Houston, Texas, and of my students are bilingual. They're fluent in English. They also know Arabic, Vietnamese or Spanish, and they see these as strengths in our classrooms. Most of my students are juniors and seniors. And I think this moment that they have with me in the classroom can be significant as they begin to value their voice even more, as voters, as writers, as letter writers, as poets and rhetoricians.

Kristen:

I share some similar students that you do, but a little different. I also grew up with working class parents in a little western Mass mill town called Westfield. My parents didn't go to college. And my dad didn't graduate high school, he left for World War II. But Westfield is predominantly a white middle-class community, but many of the students I have in my Westfield Promise class are students who are first-generation college students, who are not necessarily part of the demographic of the school as a whole. I have students from Africa, Puerto Rican students. And I think that, for me, the Westfield Promise program has been a wonderful opportunity. It's a early college program, where we work with Westfield State University. A college professor, Wyatt Hermanson comes to my classroom two days a week.

The students earn college credit as juniors, and it's a stretch course, so it takes the whole year. And then when they're seniors, they go on the campus of Westfield State. But I have them every day, along with my other classes. I have my other students. And for me, my job with my students is to recognize all their individual personalities, their struggles, their tribulations, their fears. And I think that's something that we share in common with our students. I don't care where they live. I don't care what they have or don't have. There are some universal truths about kids, about young people. They want to be heard, they want to be recognized. They want to be contributing to society. And I feel that it's our job to help them get there. And I think we share that.

R. Joseph Rodríguez is a secondary language arts teacher at William Charles Akins Early College High School in Austin, Texas. He is the author of numerous books including Enacting Adolescent Literacies across Communities: Latino/a Scribes and Their Rites, Teaching Culturally Sustaining and Inclusive Young Adult Literature: Critical Perspectives and Conversations, and This Is Our Summons Now: Poems. 

Joseph is a former editor of NCTE’s English Journal, founder of the literacy initiative Libre con Libros, and a reader of banned and challenged books.

Kristen Biancuzzo, an English Language Arts teacher at Westfield High School (MA) and a 1983 graduate, is in her 24th year of teaching. She teaches ELA 3 Honors and serves as the high school ELA teacher for the Westfield Promise Early College program. She co-advises the Class of 2026, sits on the NHS faculty council, chairs Employee Rights and Responsibilities for the teacher’s union, and serves on the Edwards Library Board of Trustees. She has also participated in several NEH grant opportunities, where she met R. Joseph Rodriguez.